Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

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Rainero
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:44 am
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by Rainero » Thu May 14, 2020 5:22 pm

We are looking at between 10 and 15 bucks...
So, reading that I'm totally disappointed. That is not the way to bind customers. I have a fleet of 9 aircraft from MilViz, that is a total of90 to 135 bucks. I would perhaps accept 10...15 bucks for an update of all of them.
The more products I buy, the more I have to pay? So I get punished for being a loyal customer? Are you kidding?
You are free to buy or not to buy. It's your money.
This is a VERY cynical statement. If I don't want to trash my investment, I have NO choice, other than to pay and you know that.

My plan was to buy to buy two more planes from MilViz during the next few weeks.

I will cancel that plan for the following reasons:
* I need the money to buy updates for my MilViz fleet
* I am annoyed about the fact I have to pay for the P3dv5 updates
* I am annoyed about your cynical statement

Thank you.

Have a nice day.
Rob

SnuffyTheMongoose
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:00 pm
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by SnuffyTheMongoose » Thu May 14, 2020 6:53 pm

We didn't charge for v3 to v4. We didn't charge for v4 to v4.5. This time... we are deffo charging. And it's not cynicism... it's realistic.

I get that 10-15 bucks is a lot if you have 9 products. I will see if we can do something about that.

We still have to pay for everyone to work on this so... it's going to happen.

You had to pay LM for the update... why aren't you bitching at them? Are not on the same level?

Rainero
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:44 am
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by Rainero » Thu May 14, 2020 8:26 pm

Sorry but I have to feed my family and children and the dog too. I have to work hard for my money bla, bla, bla.

That is not the way to argue. As almost everyone I have a limited budget for my hobby.

It is also not the right way to argue with LM. The 60/200 bucks that they get every 2-3 years, is nothing compared to the money that I have spend for add-ons over the years. I guess it is around 400$ for MilViz alone.

If you would like to compare, than compare yourself with companies like
* PMDG free updates
* Aerosoft Airbuses free updates, so far known
* FSLabs free updates
* A2A free updates
* Majestics Dash free updates
* ...

Not to mention companies like Orbx, Carenado, Just Flight. They have all some work to do, with the amount of products they have.
At least new installers or compatibility checks have to be done.

But they care about their loyal and thankful customer base. They all announced free updates for P3Dv5.

You are not selling 5$ crab, but quality products that have a price. It has something to do with faith. If you take my money I trust you that I can use this product as long as possible. Especially with this price tag. And P3Dv5 is so far only a small improvement over P3Dv4 and not a whole new simulator.

So what is the real reason for you to ask for money? Because you have so much work to do, or because you feel now is the time to make some cash and P3dv5 is just an excuse? Sorry to say, but when I read your post it sounds a bit like this.

If you would have so much work to do when moving from P3dv4 to P3dv5 than you must have done something terribly wrong in your development.
Personally I don't think that, knowing some of your products.

So finally with your announcement I lost faith. This in mind, I have to think over any plans to buy more products from MilViz.

Sorry.

Rob

NeilG
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:09 am
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by NeilG » Thu May 14, 2020 9:39 pm

Rainero wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:22 pm
We are looking at between 10 and 15 bucks...
So, reading that I'm totally disappointed. That is not the way to bind customers. I have a fleet of 9 aircraft from MilViz, that is a total of90 to 135 bucks. I would perhaps accept 10...15 bucks for an update of all of them.
The more products I buy, the more I have to pay? So I get punished for being a loyal customer? Are you kidding?
You are free to buy or not to buy. It's your money.
This is a VERY cynical statement. If I don't want to trash my investment, I have NO choice, other than to pay and you know that.

My plan was to buy to buy two more planes from MilViz during the next few weeks.

I will cancel that plan for the following reasons:
* I need the money to buy updates for my MilViz fleet
* I am annoyed about the fact I have to pay for the P3dv5 updates
* I am annoyed about your cynical statement

Thank you.

Have a nice day.
Rob

NeilG
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:09 am
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by NeilG » Thu May 14, 2020 9:40 pm

Sorry about the mistake in posting,
I can understand the frustration felt at having to pay between 10-15 (dollars I presume), and I am in the same position, ie I have all but one of the Milviz models, I have a limited budget now I’m retired and it will cost me allot to upgrade. I suspect I will have to do it a couple at a time. However, I think we have to remember that all developers are business organisations and if they can’t make money they will not survive. If they cannot survive the hobby will wither.
Like you, I have regarded Milviz as one of my favourites. I had also hoped that the upgrades would be free as so many of the other developers have said their own upgrades will be. But different firms have different circumstances. I think we must assume that if Milviz have to make these charges then their circumstances must require it. My hope, now, is that if a charge has to be made then the upgrades will be done fairly quickly.

Curtis-P
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:54 pm
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by Curtis-P » Fri May 15, 2020 12:24 am

SnuffyTheMongoose wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 6:53 pm
We didn't charge for v3 to v4. We didn't charge for v4 to v4.5. This time... we are deffo charging. And it's not cynicism... it's realistic.

I get that 10-15 bucks is a lot if you have 9 products. I will see if we can do something about that.

We still have to pay for everyone to work on this so... it's going to happen.

You had to pay LM for the update... why aren't you bitching at them? Are not on the same level?
I have the MD530, CH47, B407 and AW109 from Milviz. The 530 works great and since that's my favorite that's all the better. The AW109, B407 and CH47 all fly great but no avionics. I can't see $45.00 just for radios. So I won't be updating these. I have 11 aircraft from A2A (Awesome group of people and awesome aircraft). They immediately started working on installers for their aircraft. FOR FREE. They have already released 3. The 172, V35, J3 Cub. I'm not sure I'll get anymore Milviz which is a shame. Was looking at the T38, F4 and 310. Will have to wait and see.

pbearsailor
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:59 pm
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by pbearsailor » Fri May 15, 2020 12:55 am

Please give some consideration to those who have purchased many products from you over the years. I'm fine with a fee for the upgrades but would sure like to see a break for loyal customers.

cheers,
steve

bonaldo
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:30 pm
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by bonaldo » Fri May 15, 2020 12:39 pm

SnuffyTheMongoose wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 6:53 pm
You had to pay LM for the update... why aren't you bitching at them?
Wow, really?
Is that the tone now?

Jesus...

NeilG
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:09 am
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by NeilG » Fri May 15, 2020 1:07 pm

BTW, think many of us have been ‘bitching’ at P3D for charging full price for what is effectively a large service pack, but I guess we are used to that from them.

Raptor
Posts: 1316
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:07 am
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by Raptor » Fri May 15, 2020 4:24 pm

My $0.02 worth..

PMDG just released a"new" 737 at 99 dlls and you are calling that "free"? The old one is not being ported to V5. So 99 is about 10 times bigger than 10.

Carenado. 1st of, comparing their basic products is unreal. I ported all their products to V5 with no more than a re-install. No work involved from them.
Besides, you must have missed their policy when X-Plane 11 was released. We had to buy all their product full price again.

Aerosoft? Go look at the twin otter. Had to re-purchase full price to bring it to V4

All developers charge us at one point or another.
-Sergio

=jskibo=
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:11 pm
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by =jskibo= » Sat May 16, 2020 3:08 am

I'm shocked it wasn't a Kickstarter campaign.......

paddler
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:51 pm
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by paddler » Sat May 16, 2020 3:21 am

If there is considerable work required to complete the conversion from v4.5 to v5 it would only be reasonable to expect to pay for that work. (I always felt that I should be paid for my work unless it was a conscious volunteer effort on my part.) I bought quality Milviz products because I choose to. I liked and therefore purchased, and fly often, most of their products and look forward to new ones such as the C130 that will eventually be offered. I don't expect MILVIZ to update my planes for free forever. I would expect more minor updates to be covered say, throughout v5.

The cost of conversion will of course have an impact upon what I am able to upgrade. I consider that to be one of the many life choices that are, and should be, considered as normal. Of course I would be delighted to be granted an upgrade discount based upon the number of upgrades purchased. That is a consideration to be determined and offered by MILVIZ. I want them to survive and keep producing great product. If they don't survive we won't get updates nor new product and that would be a loss.

Precious few of us are flush with disposable income. I really do understand the frustration expressed by some that come as the result of our ever changing hobby. Trying to chase the moving target is expensive though for both the consumer and commercial developer. The hobby thrives because of the symbiotic relationship between consumer and developer. Unreasonable expectations on either side only strain and challenge that relationship. Mutual understanding and respect strengthen it.

Rick

vvince
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:27 pm
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by vvince » Sun May 17, 2020 8:49 am

Rainero wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:22 pm
You are free to buy or not to buy. It's your money.
This is a VERY cynical statement. If I don't want to trash my investment, I have NO choice, other than to pay and you know that.

My plan was to buy to buy two more planes from MilViz during the next few weeks.

I will cancel that plan for the following reasons:
* I need the money to buy updates for my MilViz fleet
* I am annoyed about the fact I have to pay for the P3dv5 updates
* I am annoyed about your cynical statement
I am in the same boat as Rob : I have many Milviz addons, about 10 of them including all the expensive ADV models (I prefer not to sum up all the money they cost me already...) and updating all of them is quite a budget in itself.
When I bought a Milviz plane I thought I bought a product, not a subscription plan.
So I will not be buying new products from Milviz since maintaining all those aircrafts to be flyable in the current sim is already too expensive.
And I might not even update them all, which is a pity. "it's my money" after all.
I entered P3D world with the v4 version, so I bought all these planes in the last two years or less. And having to pay 10-15 euros for each after two years to simply continue using them is not pleasing me.

Cheers

vgbaron
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:58 pm
Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by vgbaron » Mon May 18, 2020 7:12 pm

I always use these upgrades as a time to clean out my hangar. Just because I bought the original product doesn't mean I need to upgrade. For those on a budget who are complaining that they have all of Milviz' products -how often do you fly each model?
IMHO, dev's are entitled to a modest charge when they have to spend more than minimal time updating and packaging a product - I don't care if I had 100 products - $10/$15 is a nominal price. Someone mentioned that they had a family to feed - does not that logic apply to the dev's also?

Let's cut them a break and allow them to make a profit.

Vic
P3D#1 - 7700K 5.0g ROG X270F 3600 15-15-15 - GTX2080ti 1000W PSU 1- 850G EVO SSD, 2-512G OCZ SSD, 1TB,HAF942-H100 Water W1064Pro
40" 4K Monitor 3840x2160 - ASP3D, ASCA, GEP3D, UTX, Toposim, ORBX Regions, TrackIR

ccmh15
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:33 pm
Location: LOWW
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Re: Prepar3D V5: compatibility with existing products

Post by ccmh15 » Tue May 19, 2020 10:27 am

We all bought our products for a specific simulator product (like P3Dv4), and it will always be possible to use them within this specific P3D version for as long as we want.

If you want to switch to another simulator platform (like P3Dv5), it's kind of a logical thing you need to acquire the respective compatible releases for any addon you want to use within this new simulator as well. Some developers might be able to provide those new versions for free, others just are not.

I really don't understand all the buzzing here. No one is forced to change from P3Dv4 to P3Dv5.

jm2cts...
Chris


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