Engine Keeps Blowing Out ! Why Can't Damage be Disabled ?

[gavh_62]

I can start this aircraft using Ctrl + E, but I cannot disable this ridiculously over sensitive damage model. Is the irony of this totally lost ?

Every other addon in the history of flightsim, that has any kind of damage or failure system, allows the user to disable, or moderate it.

Why do you have to be different ?

It is rapidly becoming a total PITA as it is ruining the entire experience.

I keep stuff in the green but it keeps blowing up.

Crazy.

You should make it clearly - EXPLICITLY so, in your sales blurb, that if this aircraft goes into the red on ANY parameter, you have to reset the flight. Or better still, just allow us to turn it off.

Also, in one part of the manual it states any damage is not persistent (i.e. continuing between flights), whereas in another section, it states damage is carried over.... which is it ?

Also, it does not appear in the failures menu in P3D, nor can it be disabled in the Realism settings, by unchecking Stress Causes Damage etc. Nor is there anything in the configuration app relating to it.

[gavh_62]

10 views but no comments... lurkers huh ?

Well, I've sussed out out how to disable it, or at least reset the cumulative damage each flight.

Save me going mad at any rate.

[N4GIX]

The engine won't get damaged if you adhere to the instructions precisely. Were that not the case, we'd be flooded with complaints.

[gavh_62]

So this sim is only for experts then ?

Seems to me, anyone else gets an unuseable sim.

Disgraceful mate.

I just delete the Failure section.... in the cfg file. Shouldn't have to.

Very arrogant attitude.

Even A2A and PMDG, who implement failures expertly, allow the user to disable it, or at least monitor it, and easily (and transparently) fix damage.

The hidden way in which you do this, makes me feel "mugged off".

I feel violated.

Please don't do this with the ATR. That would be a real shame if not a crime against flight simulation.

[Krazycolin]

Feel free to not buy the ATR.

But, in all honesty, we don’t, unlike other devs, do products that allow you, the “pilot” to not actually fly the plane the way it’s supposedto be flown. We don’t cover our products with mechanics and sounds and cool effects. We make them fly and die like the real thing... (Osh... I like the sound of that!!).

If you don’t like it that we’re actually making our products do what the real thing does... wow. That’s a first.

Anyway. Not to be arrogant but, we’re not going to change it up in order to make it simpler to fly. That’s not our thing.

[gavh_62]

OK, in the interest of fairness, I appreciate your right to have that opinion.

BUT, here's a few of counter arguments.


1. You say it should be flown by the book: yet you allow the user to start the engines with Ctrl + E

That is contradictory.

Other devs of "Study Sims", do not allow this, but instead provide you with a suite of optional Start Up states.


2. P3D at least, is meant to be an "Educational Tool". This means you should have a transparent damage system (if you insist on having one), whereby the user knows what he or she is doing wrong, and learn from it.

Being able to see what damage you have done, understand why, and put it right, is key to it being useful as an educational tool.

- A2A do this in a magnificent fashion, using a "Maintenance Hangar".

- Majestic have an Instructor Station, where a plethora of failures can be caused in real time, by an "Instructor" using a remote computer (albeit only in the Pro version).

I could go on...


3. In terms of 'enjoyment factor' (at least for FSX - as it isn't allowed in P3D ), consider this scenario:

..... I spend an hour setting up my flight, programming my GTN for a complex valley flight at low altitude through the fjords of Norway.

..... I set up my Radar Contact ATC program, and load the relevant plans and documents into my EFB.

..... I then login to my VA, or start a flight in Air Hauler.

THEN, just after takeoff...... BOOM !! The engine blows, because (unknown to me), the damage percentage in you damage section of that cfg file, reached 98 percent on my previous flight, last week !

For people with slow computers, the reboot process can take 10 to 15 minutes and you have to repeat the above !

.... Now that, Sir, is a PITA.


4. In real life you wouldn't get into a car, or onto a bicycle if you thought there was a chance of catastrophic failure (notwithstanding Acts of God).

5. Would you give a kid a new toy, and tell him "you can play with it for half an hour, but then it may stop working for 15 minutes, and then you have to start again... from the beginning ?"

.... no, as that would be CRUEL, and the kid would just get bored and move on to another toy.




=======
TLDR;
=======

If you insist on making this a cruel game with consequences, which cannot be disabled or moderated , and provides nothing in the way of feedback to aid learning (much like 'Crash Bandicoot' ), do not promote it as an educational tool (which by definition, it has to be, in P3D).

Secondly, make it clear in your sales blurb, as I can guarantee that a lot of people will have bought this and get fed pretty quickly.... and they won't come back.

Thirdly, I actually like your Otter, and am hoping the ATR will a decent sim, but this damage element leaves a bitter taste ... so, why not embrace it properly, by turning it into a learning tool: and at least - AT LEAST - 'zero out' the damage after each flight.

One section in the manual states it is cumulative; one section states it "resets" (after each flight). Looking at the Damage section in the config file, it seems to be cumulative, with 3 or 4 areas of damage increasing with each flight. So it appears that the people involved with the development, cannot even agree about what is actually happening !!!

Ideally, show damage in an after flight Maintenance Report, explain it, and advise how to avoid it.... and give us the "Option" to "repair" the aircraft.

As far as I'm concerned, I can simply delete the Damage section manually (or have SimstarterNG do it automatically on boot up, by copying a fresh copy of the 'clean' cfg file across), but ideally we should not be forced to do this, and not everyone has the knowledge to be able to do this.

Sometimes, "Less is More"... and I think you are shooting yourselves in the foot with this ill-thought out system.

Regards.

[sunjunkiesi]

OR...

You can just fly it right.

[Raptor]

I believe your "engine keeps blowing out" because you are using CTRL-E. The sim may not be following the right sequence or parameters to start the engine which YOU as the PIC should monitor and follow.

I love the simulation and I am very fond of the fact that trying to fly this aircraft like the default Cessna will result in disaster, just like the real world.

Hats off to Milviz in developing (another) superior simulation

[Chuck Jodry]

Don't firewall the throttle and you're not going to have an issue.

Best CJ

[Taguilo]

Hi,

1. You say it should be flown by the book: yet you allow the user to start the engines with Ctrl + E

That is contradictory.

Other devs of "Study Sims", do not allow this, but instead provide you with a suite of optional Start Up states.

There is no Autostart in the Turbine Otter. We use the same command that is fsim default (CTRL-E) to actually start the engine following the checklist procedures, so that pilots can learn which are the real, recommended steps for that.
This function shouldn't add any kind of stress to your engine providing you start from a cold and dark situation.

Being able to see what damage you have done, understand why, and put it right, is key to it being useful as an educational tool.

have you read this? FAQ - Please read the manual and THIS before post
It's the first thing you should have done if you wanted to fly the plane safely.

Regards,
Tomas